Since I asked the question, thanks very much for your response, Terry. It makes a lot of sense. My parents were Presbyterians and (I thought) quite strict, but I was quite a logical child and a lot of it didn't altogether make sense to me. We went to church every Sunday, and my brothers and I weren't allowed to play out in the street with our friends for the rest of the day. But we did often go into the countryside with the car, which involved buying petrol, which, as you point out, necessitates other people working. Also, while they'd never have done a full shopping expedition on a Sunday they did stop at a corner shop on the way home from church to buy the Sunday papers and 'treats'! They even watched TV on a Sunday (although nothing dodgy was allowed any day of the week), but it was obvious to me that that involved other people working. We weren't encouraged to question the wisdom of our parents (i.e. to be cheeky!) so I never said anything, but it all struck me as lacking logic.
Sabbatarianism, as a separate issue, wasn't something I ever thought about until I came across Tudor Alexandor's podcasts. He has hours and hours of stuff on it (although he's not SDA or any other denomination) which I haven't listened to so far. You and he do agree on faith vs rituals and 'religion', though, and probably on much else.
There is, however, a little more to this story. First, full disclosure, I grew up under the influence of a Sabbatarian church from about age 12 onward, until I left when I was 21. I have a bias toward re-examining the subject from time to time rather than simply dismissing it.
As an adult in my 40s I returned in 1990 to what was left of that church as, it turned out, it was near to breaking up, and after five years when it did break up I left the second time for an SDA church with which I had a personal connection, although that stay only lasted about 2 1/2 years.
Much more recently I began to reflect on the word "remember" in Ex. 20:8. The command was specifically to remember, something which very specifically is avoided now, but remember what? "The Sabbath day, to keep it holy."
But then what exactly does "to keep it holy" mean? I've always wondered about that strange phrase -- it didn't really entirely make sense, the way it was worded. But finally I think I saw what it means.
I'm not going to tell anyone that they should or should not observe or "keep" the 7th-day Sabbath. What I will do is share something I learned about the day. There is a clue in verse 11:
"For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."
I had already noticed that creation happened long before the Mosaic law, but I missed the clue contained in "made it holy". Both "to keep it holy" and "made it holy" allude to Genesis 2:3:
"Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created 1and made."
This is not Mosaic law. The word "sanctified" here (in the NASB) might better be translated "consecrated" -- dedicated to God in any case. And the language used here is very similar to the language of Ex. 11:8, nearly the same words. V.8 is referring to the seventh day being "consecrated". The language in v. 11 is even closer.
I don't have the kind of familiarity with the Hebrew that I would need to evaluate the relationship of these three verses, beyond noticing the similarity in choice of words. But I made this discovery while doing a Hebrew-level study of Genesis 2 working with the Word Biblical Commentary on Genesis…
"[Gen. 2:]3 Though the seventh day is not called the Sabbath, God 'blessed' it and 'hallowed' it. These are striking terms to apply to a day. Biblical usage generally restricts blessing to animate beings—God, men, animals and so on—and it is not immediately obvious in what sense a day can be blessed (cf. 1:22, 28). Divine blessing on men and animals leads to fruitfulness and success, and it is paradoxical that the day on which God refrains from creative activity is pronounced blessed. Partly the Sabbath is blessed by being 'hallowed,' but there is also the suggestion that those who observe the Sabbath will enjoy divine blessing in their lives.
"Similarly, it is unusual for a day to be 'hallowed,' that is, made or declared holy. The piel of קדשׁ is usually factitive, though here it may be declarative. Places, people, and religious objects may be hallowed, but apart from the Sabbath, only in Neh 8:9, 11 is a festival day called holy. God is holy: holiness is the essence of his character. Anything else that is described as holy in the OT derives its holiness from being chosen by God and given to him in the correct prescribed manner (see G. J. Wenham, Leviticus, 18–27). The seventh day is the very first thing to be hallowed in Scripture, to acquire that special status that properly belongs to God alone. In this way Genesis emphasizes the sacredness of the Sabbath. Coupled with the threefold reference to God resting from all his work on that day, these verses give the clearest of hints of how man created in the divine image should conduct himself on the seventh day…"
The WBC Commentary on Exodus, by a different author, doesn't undertake to relate Ex. 20:8, 11 to Gen. 2:3 -- rather it somewhat dismisses the notion…
"[Ex. 2:]11 A still further justification of this requirement, beyond the assertion that the sabbath day belongs to Yahweh, is added. Yahweh himself respects this day as a day of surcease from the labor of the other six days: his work of creation was accomplished in six days, and then he rested. This justification of the sabbath-rest by reference to the P account of creation in Gen 1:1–2:4a may be less 'an etiology for the sanctification of the sabbath' by tying it to the 'very structure of the universe' (Childs, 416) than another attempt to persuade the sons of Israel to keep the fourth commandment. Yahweh himself kept the sabbath, and blessed it: Israel therefore could hardly do otherwise."
It does, however, have things to say about "remember"…
"זָכוׄר, a qal infinitive absolute, is the equivalent of an emphatic imperative. it means 'remember,' as always in contexts of covenantal obligation, in the sense of 'observe without lapse' or 'hold as a present and continuing priority…' (A comparison between the wording in Exodus and Deuteronomy follows.)
So I don't have a specific Hebrew-level reference about "consecration" in Ex. 20:8 and 11. But I am not trying to persuade anybody to do anything. Think about it, and do what you like with it.
There is a commandment to REMEMBER, to GUARD, and to REST on the Shabbat which is on the 7th day. All of the followers of the Way and early “Christians” kept the Shabbat.
Also, Oneness is BIBLICAL. Echad means One or united. We are all ONE in Messiah Yeshua.
I totally agree with you Terry, rules such as this one is not beneficial to you or to God except that it encourages people where possible to rest because he loves us. By the way I have been watching Dallas Willard on YouTube and am very impressed by his teaching, probably as I believe that Jesus came to be an example to us by bringing Heaven to Earth to usher in his Kingdom and to make disciples. Probably not the choicest of words but I believe Christ wanted to spread his Holy infection throughout the whole World. I also believe that Jesus is the greatest kindest most intelligent and wisest person who ever lived and could live on Earth. So Glory be to God and let his Kingdom come!
🤔 Hum, now what was that 4th Commandment? Songs changes His morality.
It seems He changes due to the acceptance of His “Suggestion.” So not many “Christians” worry about adultery.. I guess that one does not matter anymore!! People pray to Mary, Saints and even Trump!! Christians!! So “Suggestions” 1 and 2 are now outdated . GID DOES NOT CARE!!! Yay!! Sort of sounds like Aleister Crowley’s , “Do as Thou Please.”
Wow, now who was Aleister Crowley again?
Interesting that Jesus rested in the tomb on the 7th day. Every judgement in the Bible came on a Sabbath.
Did God ever say, “ never mind about the Sabbath!! You do YOU?” I do not find it.
I'm very sorry to see how ignorant Christians are about the basics. They do not even read their Bibles and see the plain words given by the apostles:
"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond these essential requirements: You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality."
Where do you see the Sabbath in these rules? What about circumcision? What about sacrificing animals in the temple for the atonement of sins? Jesus told us to love our neighbors, which covers all of the transgressions we could have against each other, and what else did he say?
Maybe you've never read it:
"The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27).
On a different note, I do have a question. Maybe you’ve answered before but I haven’t seen it. What is your take on circumcision? Should baby boys still be circumcised in the hospital just after birth???
I've thought about trying to explore the psychology and purpose of circumcision in the Old Testament originally, but the short answer for today is that it's completely unncessary.
God considers a converted Christian to already be circumcised, spiritually...
(Colossians 2:11) In him you also were circumcised--not, however, with a circumcision performed by human hands, but by the removal of the fleshly body, that is, through the circumcision done by Christ.
Cutting a piece of flesh off a child isn't going to help their spirit.
Why would you circumcise a baby boy any time at all? This seems to be an American thing, as far as I can see. Here in the UK it's not a thing at all for anyone not Jewish. Having said that, my late mother once told me that my older brother was circumcised (1951) in his first year because the doctor recommended it as a remedy for his constant crying! Sounds like witch-doctor medicine to me. Female genital mutiliation provokes an outcry, and quite rightly. But somehow it's OK for defenceless baby boys.
Since I asked the question, thanks very much for your response, Terry. It makes a lot of sense. My parents were Presbyterians and (I thought) quite strict, but I was quite a logical child and a lot of it didn't altogether make sense to me. We went to church every Sunday, and my brothers and I weren't allowed to play out in the street with our friends for the rest of the day. But we did often go into the countryside with the car, which involved buying petrol, which, as you point out, necessitates other people working. Also, while they'd never have done a full shopping expedition on a Sunday they did stop at a corner shop on the way home from church to buy the Sunday papers and 'treats'! They even watched TV on a Sunday (although nothing dodgy was allowed any day of the week), but it was obvious to me that that involved other people working. We weren't encouraged to question the wisdom of our parents (i.e. to be cheeky!) so I never said anything, but it all struck me as lacking logic.
Sabbatarianism, as a separate issue, wasn't something I ever thought about until I came across Tudor Alexandor's podcasts. He has hours and hours of stuff on it (although he's not SDA or any other denomination) which I haven't listened to so far. You and he do agree on faith vs rituals and 'religion', though, and probably on much else.
There is, however, a little more to this story. First, full disclosure, I grew up under the influence of a Sabbatarian church from about age 12 onward, until I left when I was 21. I have a bias toward re-examining the subject from time to time rather than simply dismissing it.
As an adult in my 40s I returned in 1990 to what was left of that church as, it turned out, it was near to breaking up, and after five years when it did break up I left the second time for an SDA church with which I had a personal connection, although that stay only lasted about 2 1/2 years.
Much more recently I began to reflect on the word "remember" in Ex. 20:8. The command was specifically to remember, something which very specifically is avoided now, but remember what? "The Sabbath day, to keep it holy."
But then what exactly does "to keep it holy" mean? I've always wondered about that strange phrase -- it didn't really entirely make sense, the way it was worded. But finally I think I saw what it means.
I'm not going to tell anyone that they should or should not observe or "keep" the 7th-day Sabbath. What I will do is share something I learned about the day. There is a clue in verse 11:
"For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."
I had already noticed that creation happened long before the Mosaic law, but I missed the clue contained in "made it holy". Both "to keep it holy" and "made it holy" allude to Genesis 2:3:
"Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created 1and made."
This is not Mosaic law. The word "sanctified" here (in the NASB) might better be translated "consecrated" -- dedicated to God in any case. And the language used here is very similar to the language of Ex. 11:8, nearly the same words. V.8 is referring to the seventh day being "consecrated". The language in v. 11 is even closer.
I don't have the kind of familiarity with the Hebrew that I would need to evaluate the relationship of these three verses, beyond noticing the similarity in choice of words. But I made this discovery while doing a Hebrew-level study of Genesis 2 working with the Word Biblical Commentary on Genesis…
"[Gen. 2:]3 Though the seventh day is not called the Sabbath, God 'blessed' it and 'hallowed' it. These are striking terms to apply to a day. Biblical usage generally restricts blessing to animate beings—God, men, animals and so on—and it is not immediately obvious in what sense a day can be blessed (cf. 1:22, 28). Divine blessing on men and animals leads to fruitfulness and success, and it is paradoxical that the day on which God refrains from creative activity is pronounced blessed. Partly the Sabbath is blessed by being 'hallowed,' but there is also the suggestion that those who observe the Sabbath will enjoy divine blessing in their lives.
"Similarly, it is unusual for a day to be 'hallowed,' that is, made or declared holy. The piel of קדשׁ is usually factitive, though here it may be declarative. Places, people, and religious objects may be hallowed, but apart from the Sabbath, only in Neh 8:9, 11 is a festival day called holy. God is holy: holiness is the essence of his character. Anything else that is described as holy in the OT derives its holiness from being chosen by God and given to him in the correct prescribed manner (see G. J. Wenham, Leviticus, 18–27). The seventh day is the very first thing to be hallowed in Scripture, to acquire that special status that properly belongs to God alone. In this way Genesis emphasizes the sacredness of the Sabbath. Coupled with the threefold reference to God resting from all his work on that day, these verses give the clearest of hints of how man created in the divine image should conduct himself on the seventh day…"
The WBC Commentary on Exodus, by a different author, doesn't undertake to relate Ex. 20:8, 11 to Gen. 2:3 -- rather it somewhat dismisses the notion…
"[Ex. 2:]11 A still further justification of this requirement, beyond the assertion that the sabbath day belongs to Yahweh, is added. Yahweh himself respects this day as a day of surcease from the labor of the other six days: his work of creation was accomplished in six days, and then he rested. This justification of the sabbath-rest by reference to the P account of creation in Gen 1:1–2:4a may be less 'an etiology for the sanctification of the sabbath' by tying it to the 'very structure of the universe' (Childs, 416) than another attempt to persuade the sons of Israel to keep the fourth commandment. Yahweh himself kept the sabbath, and blessed it: Israel therefore could hardly do otherwise."
It does, however, have things to say about "remember"…
"זָכוׄר, a qal infinitive absolute, is the equivalent of an emphatic imperative. it means 'remember,' as always in contexts of covenantal obligation, in the sense of 'observe without lapse' or 'hold as a present and continuing priority…' (A comparison between the wording in Exodus and Deuteronomy follows.)
So I don't have a specific Hebrew-level reference about "consecration" in Ex. 20:8 and 11. But I am not trying to persuade anybody to do anything. Think about it, and do what you like with it.
Shalom,
Very interesting post.
There is a commandment to REMEMBER, to GUARD, and to REST on the Shabbat which is on the 7th day. All of the followers of the Way and early “Christians” kept the Shabbat.
Also, Oneness is BIBLICAL. Echad means One or united. We are all ONE in Messiah Yeshua.
Be Blessed
We are not God, God is not us, God is not Creation, Creation is not God. So no, Oneness is false.
I totally agree with you Terry, rules such as this one is not beneficial to you or to God except that it encourages people where possible to rest because he loves us. By the way I have been watching Dallas Willard on YouTube and am very impressed by his teaching, probably as I believe that Jesus came to be an example to us by bringing Heaven to Earth to usher in his Kingdom and to make disciples. Probably not the choicest of words but I believe Christ wanted to spread his Holy infection throughout the whole World. I also believe that Jesus is the greatest kindest most intelligent and wisest person who ever lived and could live on Earth. So Glory be to God and let his Kingdom come!
Did God really say? Did God really mean?
🤔 Hum, now what was that 4th Commandment? Songs changes His morality.
It seems He changes due to the acceptance of His “Suggestion.” So not many “Christians” worry about adultery.. I guess that one does not matter anymore!! People pray to Mary, Saints and even Trump!! Christians!! So “Suggestions” 1 and 2 are now outdated . GID DOES NOT CARE!!! Yay!! Sort of sounds like Aleister Crowley’s , “Do as Thou Please.”
Wow, now who was Aleister Crowley again?
Interesting that Jesus rested in the tomb on the 7th day. Every judgement in the Bible came on a Sabbath.
Did God ever say, “ never mind about the Sabbath!! You do YOU?” I do not find it.
I'm very sorry to see how ignorant Christians are about the basics. They do not even read their Bibles and see the plain words given by the apostles:
"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond these essential requirements: You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality."
Where do you see the Sabbath in these rules? What about circumcision? What about sacrificing animals in the temple for the atonement of sins? Jesus told us to love our neighbors, which covers all of the transgressions we could have against each other, and what else did he say?
Maybe you've never read it:
"The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath" (Mark 2:27).
On a different note, I do have a question. Maybe you’ve answered before but I haven’t seen it. What is your take on circumcision? Should baby boys still be circumcised in the hospital just after birth???
I've thought about trying to explore the psychology and purpose of circumcision in the Old Testament originally, but the short answer for today is that it's completely unncessary.
God considers a converted Christian to already be circumcised, spiritually...
(Colossians 2:11) In him you also were circumcised--not, however, with a circumcision performed by human hands, but by the removal of the fleshly body, that is, through the circumcision done by Christ.
Cutting a piece of flesh off a child isn't going to help their spirit.
Why would you circumcise a baby boy any time at all? This seems to be an American thing, as far as I can see. Here in the UK it's not a thing at all for anyone not Jewish. Having said that, my late mother once told me that my older brother was circumcised (1951) in his first year because the doctor recommended it as a remedy for his constant crying! Sounds like witch-doctor medicine to me. Female genital mutiliation provokes an outcry, and quite rightly. But somehow it's OK for defenceless baby boys.
yep. truth aka infinite love iamyouareweareone is simple and easy.
Oneness is false and anti-biblical.
have fun with that one terry